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‘IMO, the Treasures well worth the expenses’

by past customer KptKrunch – owner of Grant Fidelity A-88 tube amp:

Original post on audiokarma.org:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241929

“Well – I didn’t do the exhaustive listening session I planned – didn’t need to. I put my GF A-88 amp in UL mode, put on some PJ Ten Redux, and listened to the first 5 tracks with all the stock Shuguang tubes for the GF A-88. Music seemed very forward, Eddie Vedder sounded reproduced, not at all natural. In fact, I didn’t like the vocals much at all. The highs, cymbals in Alive for example, were very loud and distracting from the rest of the music. The Guitar sounded harsh. I then powered the amp off, waited a few minutes, and swapped out the stock KT-88’s with the Shuguang Treasures (tubes were really hot though let me tell you).

Listened to the same tracks again. Oh, forgot to mention, the A-88 is a manual bias amp, with the voltage recommended to be between .53 and .57 for the stock, and around .45 to .50 for the treasures. I set it to .55 for the stock (as that is how I had it before) and biased the Treasures to .50.

Ian told me that getting the Treasures (I also have the TJ Full Music 12AX7’s but more on those later) would be more of an upgrade than a tube roll per say. Of course he’s going to ‘say’ that, he’s a salesman, right? And those tubes aren’t cheap. I took it with a grain of salt.

Well, there was about a 5 minute delay as I mentioned I had to let the power drain from the amp and the tubes needed to cool a bit before I could take them out. Once I did the switch and started up TEN again – there was a definite difference. I wish I could have two amps running and just use a switch but even with a 5 minute delay I could hear it. The music had much more weight to it. Bass was a little less though, but it was heavier. Not sure if that makes sense, but that’s what I picked up. Also the highs were much smoother with the treasures. With the stock tubes the highs were on the harsh side, which is saying a lot as I’m using Totem Hawks right now and they are not a forward/harsh speaker. Overall I would say the amp sounded richer, smoother, without losing any detail at all. Even the cymbals on Alive which were far too in your face with the stock tubes were not nearly as present but you could still hear them loud and clear.

I next swapped out the stock 6SN7’s with my NOS 1958 Sylvinia black bottoms. This really ‘lushed’ it up I found. Again, I could hear a difference right away (note: Treasures stayed in). This sounded like I switched it over to Triode mode actually, bass was softer, but still present, cymbals were now hard to discern on Alive, in fact you had to now strain to hear them, but guitar sounded really sweet.

Last but not least, with the NOS 6S7N’s and the Treasures still in, I swapped the 12AX7 Shuguang stock with the TJ Full Music 12AX7 tubes. Same 5 tracks again.

Detail is all back to where it should be, those TJ’s sure woke up the 6S7N’s, but the lushness did not leave. Cymbals were back though still not as ‘there’ as they were with the stock 6SN7’s, but you didn’t need to strain to hear them and they did not detract from the music at all.

This is the way I’ve been listening to this A-88 amp for the past 65 hours (which in real time is 5 months) and all I can say is each swap offered a definite improvement and I’m happy to hear it. I was worried I wouldn’t hear anything.

Furthermore, Ian is 100% accurate when he told me this would be more of an upgrade than a tube roll per say. It really does sound like a different amp, a much better amp (and I’m not meaning to say it sounded like a slouch to begin with, but I realize why I felt the stock tubes sounded like they did when I first started this).

Now the scary news, I spent as much on all these tubes as I did on the original purchase price of this amp. Hard to believe but it’s true. Was it worth it? IMO – yes, definitely. I now have an amp that cost me with the upgraded tubes approx $1500.00 that I would gladly put up against any other tube amp out there. Not saying it would beat them (the more expensive ones that is) but I’d bet it would very close. I don’t think I could find a tube amp for $1500 that would beat this current setup.

Very happy indeed. IMO the treasures are well worth the expense.”

Treasure KT88-Z: ‘I found the best combination’

From Greg L., owner of Grant Fidelity A348 tube amp and KT88 treasure tubes…. he found a great combination in his setup and I am sharing his secret with you! 🙂

Hi Ian/Rachel,

I’ve been doing some tube rolling here for a couple of days and I have arrived at a combination of

NOS and your KT88 Treasure tubes that really, really, sing!

My current and best tube audio setup is comprised of:

AMP

KT88 Treasures
NOS Telefunken 12AX7’s
NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTA Chrome Domes (short early 1950’s version)
CD Player
NOS Mullard 12AU7’s
NOS Siemens 12AU7’s (alternate)

Speakers

1979 Klipsch Cornwall I’s

The short Sylvania 6SN7’s are even better sounding then my Tungsol Mouse Ear tubes which you heard briefly before they reached optimum operating temperature last week.

Regards,

Greg

Treasure KT88-Z: ‘what a nice upgrade’

from customer Mike G. by email:

Hi Rachel,

Wow. What a nice upgrade. They only have 8 hours on them and I am blown away by the lack of grain in the midrange, soundstage layering, and bass impact these Treasures have compared to the Genalex reissues. Its not even close.

Thanks,

Mike G.

‘Not sure if I can get better tubes than what I spent on these’

Comments from Simon N. in Ontario:

I have a GrantFidelity A-534 with a set of Telsa EL34’s NOS, they’re good to me compared to the stock GF (Shuguang generic clear glass) tubes, and initial thought on the black bottles, they weren’t as open and quite rough sounding compared to the Telsa’s. Burned them in more hours but still not too impress, then I left the amp on over night for good couple of weeks to burn them in. Now they sing!!! Sounds very live with these new tubes and very smooth sounding.

They also look nicer than the Telsa with the black coating on the glass. I’m not sure if I can get better tubes for what I spent on these, but they worth every penny to me!

Simon

original post here: http://grantfidelity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=291‘

‘they sound better than the best Mullards I have’

– from customer Richard J.

“Dear Rachel, First I would like to say Thank You for sending the Shuguang Anniversary EL 34 Black bottle tubes. Amazingly they sounded better than the best Mullards I currently have on hand right out of the box. I have never had a tube sound so good with no break in time, and I have been using tubes since 1963. Thease are trurly an amazing accomplishment. ”

‘amazing… better than reissue WE300B’

– from Robin Waytt, owner of Robyatt Audio (www.robyattaudio.com)

“The new Shuguang Treasure Series 300B-Z tubes arrived yesterday. These Black bottle carbon coated tubes are kind of unique in appearance, and construction, so I thought I would try them!

I put them in my Tektron switchable 2A3/300B/50 SET integrated, and ran them into the old Altec 604-C’s. I must state I have never been a 300B fan , I prefer 2A3’s or 45’s, however these new tubes could be one of the nicest tubes I have ever heard!!! Incredible detail, with no glare, the traditional 300B, “white” sound is gone, just sweet detail with amazing extension, and air around the instruments!!”

“I compared a loaner pair of engraved base 1930’s original Western Electric 300b’s, my re-issue Wester Electric 300b’s, and a new pair of Grant Fidelity imported Shuhuang Treasury Series carbon coated 300b’s. All played in the reference Tektron 300B intergrated using vintage Telefunken AC2 input tubes and NOS Panasonic 274A’s rectifiers.

Well first the bad news $3000 does buy you the best 300b ever, the original 300b’s have better detail better harmonics and amazing soundstage than the others. However the slight “white” nature of 300b’s is still present. Now the good newsthe Treasure 300b is AMAZING bettering the reissue 300b’s by a margin while completly banishing the “white” nature! Fantastic bass, burnished tones and richness in nature characterize this tube. The mid range and vocals are a pure grainless joy. My new SET tube of choice in the Tektron amplifiers-and I DONT LIKE 300b’s!!!!”

(feedback provided via email)

‘fabulous’ – from customer in Russia

Original post was on AudioCircle:

300 B Shuguang Black Bottle tubes – fabulous!

« on: April 24, 2009, 05:21:01 pm »

Quote

I think I am overexcited with those tubes Smile

*(hopefully that won’t stop), so I would like to share my experience with other tube lovers. I used to have Golden Dragons (I think marked Hot Rod) then Svetlana 300 B, which I thought are much better than dragons, but Black Bottles are something special.. Too sad that there is no information for them on the net, except on the distributor site (it is Grant Fidelity from whom I bought them)…

From the very first moment, it is clear that they are the TUBES on my Audion Silver Night 300 B power amp… Very addictive tubes (cannot stop listening), I believe that they deserve more reputation than they used to have, frankly Shuguang in my view were sort of "shubby tubes", but the ones I have got changed my attitude to the company in completely opposite way!

I have started burn in, but even right out of the box they are more better bass, airy trebles and huge sound stage! I can’t wait those 300 hours req’d, as I read they would be different tubes…

‘I discover a great (maybe the greatest) 300B tube’

– from customer Lucian R. in California:

“I just wanted to let you know that yesterday I exchanged all the tubes in my amplifier for ones I received from you.

I am impressed with the sound and if the tubes sound like this immediately from the box I can imagine how they will sound after a couple hundred of hours….

Once again thank you for the excellent service…”

Follow up review published on AudioCircle:

“Hello members – I discovered a great (maybe the greatest) 300B tube and wanted to share a short review with you (I published it few minutes ago on Audiogon)…

Here we go:
I am an owner of VAC Renaissance 70/70 amplifier that I had for the past 12 years. The set-up of my audio system is quite minimalistic and I am so happy with it that I did not change any major components for several years with exception of the digital source.

System: Martin Logan original CLS IIA speakers with updated power supply, two Marti Logan Depth subwoofers, Yamamura Millennium 5000 interconnects, Stealth Ultimate Ribbon speaker cables and APL modded Denon 3910 CD player.

I am so familiar with the sound of my system, that I am able to discern any changes generated by different cables or low level tubes. This leads me to the subject of this review: 300B output tubes.

Shuguang Treasure ?Black Bottle? 300B-Z is my third set of tubes, the previous ones being VAC tested Golden Dragon and JJ/Tesla. I would hesitate to write this review if the difference in the sound of the system after installation of Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z was not so profound.

Original Golden Dragon tubes sounded nice, warm and musical ? unfortunately they did not last for a long time and after 2 years started to sound quite dull. JJ/Teslas were much cleaner sounding in my opinion, although not as musical as Golden Dragons.

Enter the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z: it’s a revelation! This tube does everything right ? the bass is powerful and tight, midrange smooth and liquid, upper frequencies silver and open. It is amazingly musical, with exquisite tonal balance.
What surprised me most was Shuguang?s presentation of space ? I did not expect that a set of tubes can have such an impact on the soundstage, increasing perception of depth and width and allowing musical images to float freely without any sense of confinement.

As extra bonus you get the light show at night: beautiful purple-bluish glow emanating from the top of black glass enclosures, much nicer looking than a traditional fireplace?

Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z is available from Grant Fidelity in Canada (www.grantfidelity.com). Grant Fidelity provides tube matching and excellent service, immediate responses to emails and telephone calls.

Original post is here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69082.0

JJ 300B vs. Treasure 300B-Z

– from customer Swimjay:

“Here are some additional impressions from a new 300B Z owner, with more to follow as the tubes continue to burn in. [Associated equipment includes Cambridge Audio 840C CD player w/Dexa clock and non-standard output IC, ef86-based home made line stage, home made dual mono 300B SET amps based on Jack Elliano’s DRD design, Mapleshade interconnects and speaker wire, not-yet-released newly designed vibration dissipation devices under all electronics, and very,very highly modified Quad 63’s. These speakers are not normally associated with low power amps, but in this incarnation have such a wide dynamic range that they sound great. That is, they don’t play very loud, but retrieve low-level detail so far below the range of a normal loudspeaker they don’t need to play loud to be satisfying.]
I’ve been using JJ 300Bs, and all comparisons that follow are with those.

Right out of the box the tubes are agreeable, a bit modest (not polite), even, for the first 10 minutes, slightly pinched sounding. But quickly, the sound grows more, for want of a better word, lovely. In reading Ian’s thoughts above, I was afraid I might find an overall euphonic warmth, but this was not the case. The initial presentation is unambitious, as if no chances were being taken, but very unstrained. No one area calls out its excellence, but the overall sense is very comfortable–it doesn’t seem as if there’s going to be any suffering during the break-in period.

In a very short time–less than 5 hours–the dynamics become less constrained, individual instruments become more embedded in their surrounding space, and, at about 6 hours, one is occasionally aware that a performer is standing on a floor, something the JJ’s could never quite communicate (the JJ’s have easily in excess of 2000 hours of playing time.) Already, for classical music, I would rather listen to these than to the JJ’s. For rock, they have less “slam” (an over-used, and strange, audio review term), and less deep bass. At this stage they sound “lower-bandwidth” than the JJ’s, but the flip side of that is that they also sound less edgy, less white.

They show a greater ease at resolving lower midrange, upper bass information. So for example, if a cello and the lower strings of a violin occur together, each instrument retains its harmonic structure more completely and their sound combined is richer harmonically.

I think a part of their magic–and already they’re magical–is that the Shuguangs seem to track very well subtle variations in pitch and amplitute. A tremolo or vibrato has almost as much reality as a note played with no vibrato. And individual violin notes don’t oscillate subtly between sour and brittle, but stay centered at their appropriate sweetness. So there’s a way in which the brain relaxes, and yields to the music.

With some music, when everything was very well set up, the JJ’s might seem to “pierce the veil”, and a kind of hyper-acute focus momentarily coincided with true musicality. The rest of the time one always felt a slight, or more than slight, unease. The range of CD’s one wanted to listen to was narrower than is already the case with the Shuguangs.

More later.”

Original post is here: http://grantfidelity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1121#1121

TJ Full Music 300B mesh plate vs. Treasure 300B-Z

from customer Doron O by email:

“Hello, Tubes arrived and are playing along. I do not think they are going back to you anytime soon…:-) Very good from the get go. Compared to the existing TJ 300B/n Mesh Plates the SG 300B-z have massive bass, they sound smoother, more relaxed, mid range is fuller (more lush) yet clean – more meat on the bones so to speak. Very seductive and un-fatiguing tubes, exactly like the experience Ian presented in the forum.”